How a COVID-19 Shot Upended Our Lives: Andre and Christian Cherry

[FULL TRANSCRIPT BELOW] Within a few hours of his second shot of the Moderna vaccine, Andre Cherry started having tremors in his left arm, which then spread to his other limbs. Soon he was forced to use a wheelchair. As his symptoms have worsened, he and his family have spent the last two years seeking help—and answers.

His brother Christian is now his full-time caregiver, and they have both become advocates for the vaccine-injured.

“If people acknowledge that vaccine injuries are real—that they can devastate families, they can devastate individuals, can bring them to the brink or over the precipice of death—and actually be moved to help the people who have been crying for it for years, I’d be satisfied,” Andre says.

Views expressed in this video are opinions of the host and the guest, and do not necessarily reflect the views of The Epoch Times.

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Jan Jekielek:
Andre and Christian Cherry, such a pleasure to have you both on American Thought Leaders.

Andre Cherry:
Thank you for having us. It’s a pleasure to be here, an honor to meet you.

Christian Cherry:
Definitely.

Mr. Jekielek:
Andre, let’s dive right in. Please tell me about yourself.

Andre:
My name is Andre. I’m 24 years old now. I was a college student, a pianist, a composer, an artist, and a published writer. I did a collaborative project with my classmates at Community College of Philadelphia a few years ago and I was part of the editing team as well. Almost three years ago now I took my second vaccination from Moderna against the COVID-19 virus and found my life turned upside down. Two hours after my injection I started having tremors in my left arm where I took the shot. In the coming days I had tremors in all four of my limbs and needed to use a wheelchair because it was difficult to walk.

I spent the past two years looking for care at various hospitals in my city and across the country. I’ve been to the Mayo Clinic in Jacksonville, Florida, as well as the NIH. I’ve come alongside organizations such as React19, the CanWeTalkAboutIt project, and Children’s Health Defense in order to spread awareness about the adverse effects that people have been experiencing with this vaccine, not just in this country, but across the world. I was in the documentary, “Anecdotals,” and have worked on a couple of others. I was in the documentary, “The Unseen Crisis,” as well.

Speaker 4:
I’m going to be talking about the vaccine injured, which the federal government and state agencies pretend doesn’t exist.

Andre:
I am doing the best that I can with my now very limited capacity to bring awareness and justice to this issue.

Mr. Jekielek:
Andre, you said you went to the Mayo Clinic, one of the top institutes in the country, perhaps the world, and the NIH. I’ve had people on the show who say they got the golden ticket by getting treatment at the NIH. What happened to you at the NIH?

Andre:
A movement specialist at the hospital of the University of Pennsylvania diagnosed me with functional neurologic disorder [FND], which is a shared experience I have with many vaccine injured who also experience neurologic issues and movement issues. Neurologists can’t seem to pinpoint exactly what we have. There is no structural thing in my brain that can explain my myriad symptoms. We found the NIH was doing a study on people who have functional neurologic disorder, so we signed up to participate. We went and I think the appointment was about five or six hours long.

Christian:
Yes.

Andre:
We came out of it and they said that in fact I don’t have functional neurologic disorder and that I’m not eligible for their study. Which was in a way helpful to me, because the movement specialist who diagnosed me said that it was caused by stress and anxiety, but she didn’t do any testing to see how stressed or anxious I was at the time.

I underwent a neuropsychological examination about six months into my injury, and the results came back with only mild anxiety. This is after dealing with six months of Ballismus, flaccid paralysis, dystonia, tremors, vocalizations, and lethargy; seven life-changing debilitating symptoms that can happen at any time that pose a danger to myself and to the people who live with me.

All that the tests came out with was mild anxiety. On the one hand the NIH saying that I wasn’t eligible for an FND study was helpful because I had doubts and concerns about that diagnosis to begin with. But it was also, “What do I have? What can be researched about me? What can be done?” It was kind of a double-edged sword. It helped, but it also just raised more questions.

Mr. Jekielek:
A number of people have also told me that once you get that diagnosis of FND and it sticks, it’s kind of a dead end. They just say, “We don’t know.” Christian, you have become your brother’s primary caregiver. He just mentioned seven symptoms, and you are seeing these things manifest. Please tell me about those symptoms, because not everybody is familiar with them.

Christian:
Ballismus can present as a variety of explosive muscular movements. They can be disorganized or very organized. For example, without him losing consciousness or having some hidden vendetta against me, his arm could randomly fly out and smack me in the face. There have been times where he was walking like a normal human being. His symptoms are affected by a variety of things; heat, cold, pressure, and repetitive movement.

With a repetitive movement like walking he can be under his own volition trying to walk across the room or talk to somebody and his symptoms may cause him to continue to walk and not be able to stop and walk into a wall. We were with Children’s Health Defense about two weeks ago, and because we were dealing with a lot of other things we’re typically very well-prepared, but we didn’t bring the medicine bag that included his straps that he’s wearing here.

I tried my best to keep a close eye on him, and was managing him in the wheelchair. After we did the interview on the bus, we were going up the hill to the internal interview. On our way up the hill his symptoms caused him to rise up out of the chair and start sprinting. I had to let go of the wheelchair and sprint after him. I grabbed him and maneuvered him into a safe position on the ground where there was broken glass from a bottle. We missed it, thank God.

But that’s the kind of random thing that can happen. The running isn’t even the worst. There are coordinated movements where he can kick and punch in combinations. We went to Ithaca, New York for an exosome and white blood cell treatment. He had to have preliminary exams done before the medication was administered to make sure that he was in good health and okay to take it, and that included getting his blood pressure taken.

We all know about the blood pressure cuff machine from going to doctors. This semi-repetitive compressing machine would kick off his symptoms. There were times when I would be wrestling him for three hours, basically nonstop. While he, of course, not intentionally, not under the volition of his consciousness, and without him ever losing consciousness, entered into a ballistic and chaotic episode where he was a danger to himself and to basically everyone there.

Thankfully the doctor who was working with us was very understanding and very patient. We were eventually able to get the medication administered, but it was always a very long, stressful and at times painful process. In Florida we went to the Mayo Clinic, and he was supposed to see a movement specialist there. He was walking down the corridor to the office and then all of a sudden he just dropped. They did not have staff on hand available or capable of dealing with his symptom presentation, and it ended up becoming my responsibility.

Anytime we’ve gone to a neurologist, when they do the neurological exam to see what’s working and what isn’t, especially when they do the tuning fork on his legs, he ends up in a spastic, violent, ballistic episode where he ends up on the floor. I’ve been hit multiple times and I’ve been kicked into things.

Andre:
I’ve put holes in walls.

Christian:
He’s punched holes in walls. I’ve gotten cut, grabbed, the whole nine yards, and that’s only Ballismus. I mention that symptom a lot, but it’s very rarely just one thing. They layer on top of each other. He can be flaccid in one part of his body, his legs might be flaccid, but he has control over his arms that can type on a computer or move a chair.

At other times there might be tremors where his legs are shaking or his arms are shaking and he is able to still speak. He may have times where because his symptom presentation affects every muscle in his body, it can affect his diaphragm where it will stay in a contracted position and he won’t be able to inhale. I have to manually stimulate his diaphragm so he’s then able to breathe.

Andre:
By that he means hit me in my solar plexus.

Christian:
Yes.

Mr. Jekielek:
I noticed that as you’re saying some of these things, which to me are kind of shocking, you are smiling.

Christian:
Yes. The situation at hand is not funny at all, and I find it very distressing. But there’s humor in the absurdity of all of this, because even for someone in this situation where it doesn’t make any sense at all, I can’t help but laugh, not at his expense, not at the seriousness of the circumstance, but just at the absurdity of it all.

Andre:
I’ve cracked plenty of jokes about it myself, many at my own expense.

Christian:
Yes, we make jokes at times about the ridiculous things that can happen, and it helps to keep things manageable and emotionally stable. Also, laughter can be a bit of a coping mechanism for a lot of the frustration that comes along with it. Because it leaves you in a situation, not unlike Sisyphus, where you’re pushing the boulder up the hill and it just comes back down on the same side. There’s a lot of mixed feelings, but there’s also positivity, because we’re brothers, always have been brothers, and always will be brothers. That’s not going to change anytime soon.

Mr. Jekielek:
Andre, this seems like the definition of family.

Andre:
I appreciate that. I have been very fortunate to be blessed with a brother like the one sitting next to me and the family that I live with. They’ve all been very supportive of me, doing their best to make sure that I’m comfortable, well taken care of, and always ready to do the things that I can’t do anymore, even if that means having to spoon feed me or bathe me when I can’t wash myself. We are very close. Our faith and our love for God and for each other has made us very close and is very strong, and I believe has been strengthened by us all experiencing this circumstance.

Mr. Jekielek:
A lot of people just don’t understand that vaccine injury is real. I didn’t even know what you just described existed until this moment. In, “The Unseen Crisis,” there is a time when you get paralyzed for a moment.

Andre:
He spoke at length about Ballismus, which is one of my most prevalent symptoms. The others would be tremors, dystonia, and flaccid paralysis. As Christian said, a lot of my symptoms can occur simultaneously. The flaccid paralysis is what I’m mainly dealing with now, along with some spasms. You can see the kind of fidgeting movement of my calves and my arms.

But I can’t move my legs if I wanted to right now and I can’t move my arms right now. Around this time last year I was dealing with flaccid paralysis episodes that lasted up to 15 hours, so I was just in my bed for days, day in and day out. You would think, “You are just laying in bed for all that time,” but it was so tiring.

It takes a lot out of me to experience all of these symptoms. On the one hand, I experience a lot of involuntary muscular activity. Then on the other hand, it is the flaccid paralysis most times, either in my bed or in my chair. It just puts your brain into that rest and digest state where you’re just feeling very lethargic. Either way, it’s a draining experience.

Also, sometimes the flaccid paralysis can happen spontaneously, like Christian said. I will be walking and sometimes my legs will give out. I fall and I cry out, “Man down,” so that Christian and my mom and whoever else is on hand can help me get to my wheelchair, a chair, or my bed. Speaking of my bed, it’s a hospital bed situated in the dining room on the first floor of our house. Christian sleeps in a bed in the living room, also on the first floor of our house.

Our mom used to sleep down there with him as well. But because we want her to be able to sleep in her own bed, we said, “Hey, go upstairs. Christian and I, we got this.” Basically, he’s been on watch and on hand just a room over in case anything goes down at night. Fortunately, when I’m asleep my symptoms abate, but you can’t be too careful with a situation like this. My hands shake and sometimes it turns into an all-out flailing of my limbs, which includes swinging out and sometimes hitting things.

I made the observation about two years ago that if I were to ever break a bone with the condition I’m in, it would never heal correctly, because I can’t rely on my body to stay still. If I’m in a cast, I could still swing up my arm and hit something and the bone would never set. If I ever did get better, they would have to break it again in order for it to set properly.

That’s why we have things like this strap. There’s a book bag that we carry around with me when we go out, on the rare times I do go out, with a bunch of stuff to make sure that I’m safe. I have a helmet at home. We’ve bought gym mats. The bed is a hospital bed that I sleep in with rails on the side with pillows put up on the rail so that if I ever thrash around, I don’t hurt myself on the metal.

It’s a very involved thing managing all my symptoms and making sure they aren’t triggered. Even this morning as I was getting ready to head out and make the drive up here, my mom was going to wash my hair, but her hands were cold and my body just slumped over, because now it’s just very sensitive to the touch of cold and the touch of pressure, all the things Christian mentioned.

Mr. Jekielek:
As you mentioned at the beginning, this has completely changed your life. These symptoms can come and go within minutes, correct?

Andre:
Seconds.

Mr. Jekielek:
Seconds, absolutely incredible. How has this affected the family, Christian?

Christian:
It has affected everything. For the first several months, my mom and I were sleeping on couches in the living room. We were going back and forth between a variety of hospitals and specialists, many of whom were not very positively engaged. When it came to the diagnosis of functional neurologic disorder, they were very disrespectful to both Andre and my mother. At the time, he was in a wheelchair. That was his first time ever being in a wheelchair in his life, at 20-years-old.

Andre:
21-years-old.

Christian:
21, same difference. He’s just a young guy in a wheelchair. They were raising questions because the only thing that had changed in regards to his life was the fact that he was injected with the Moderna Covid vaccination product. They became very defensive and stormed out of the room, saying, “Maybe we’ll know more when you’re your mother’s age.” One, that is an implication that our mother is old. Two, you’re not giving much hope to a patient who’s going through one of the worst things someone can go through.

The doctor didn’t offer follow up, she didn’t do any kind of psychological testing, and she didn’t ask him any questions. She said that it was functional neurologic disorder stemming from stress and anxiety. After that, most of the comments we received from other neurologists were, “My esteemed colleague said, ‘Function neurologic disorder,’ therefore, it has to be that.” During this time it was still during the pandemic, and as a result I wasn’t allowed to be in the doctor’s office directly most of the time. It was mostly my mom and my brother because of Covid restrictions.

But then if he had an issue, like if he fell out of his chair or was having Ballismus they would call me in and I would go in to help my brother. They would be fiddling with nothing, just turning their backs, not looking, and not acknowledging. They were finding any way possible to not acknowledge the very thing that was in their face. That made it extremely frustrating because my brother needed help. The more time that is spent trying to find help or just finding people who are interested costs us money and emotional stress, which is corrosive on the body.

He’s a young man who can’t start his career. Admittedly I’m making a decision to help, but in my view it would be dishonorable not to. But that creates a situation where I can’t make much of an income for myself either, and it places all of the financial stress on our single mom. The entire time, not only are you dealing with a health crisis, it is also a family crisis where everyone’s been displaced and we’re chronically stressed out. I don’t feel comfortable leaving the house. I don’t feel comfortable going upstairs for prolonged periods of time.

Even when I’m having conversations with people, I’m only partly present because I have to be concerned about whether or not he’s going to injure himself, myself, someone else, or just damage property. It is a very burdensome, heavy thing that is only made worse by the fact that; one, people don’t have awareness that these things can happen. Two, some people who do know don’t act the way that they should. Third, the people who do know and care are so dispersed across the United States.

You can only really feel like a real person when a million dollar bus project comes through, but you have to travel 45 minutes to get there. Then you’re still dealing with issues and you have to go back to your life of absolute insanity. It has not decimated us, because we refuse to allow this to be the determining factor in our lives. But it has done a massive number on our emotional welfare and our health, because being stressed this much and having to focus this much all of the time is not positive.

It certainly has done economic damage, because the money that we’re losing or spending in regards to hospitals and medical gear and travel is a loss, at least initially. Hopefully things like this will be a return on investment culturally and immediately for our family. But for the time being, we’re not quite in the black yet. I think that’s how you would say that.

Mr. Jekielek:
I was speaking with your mom the other day and she mentioned that never once did she suggest that you should do this. Immediately, you said it was your duty, and of course that you had to do this. It was good to hear that.

Christian:
Appreciate it.

Andre:
I’d do the same for him.

Christian:
100 percent.

Andre:
He’s one of the best men I know.

Christian:
Same here. It takes a lot to suffer with grace and put up with the amount of stuff that he’s had to put up with and continue to try and help people. Anytime he has the chance, he’s trying to write a message to somebody. He’s trying to encourage people and trying to get the word out. He’s a very positive person in the house. He’s laughing all the time.

That definitely makes things a lot nicer, because he’s in a position where it would be absolutely understandable if he were very, very negative and very, very angry and corrosive as a person. But he’s just not. Everyone putting in their time and putting in their emotional energy pays everybody back and we’re able to keep it going.

Mr. Jekielek:
Andre, I’ve heard that you like to help people. Please tell me about the people that you’ve been in touch with.

Andre:
I had the supreme honor of meeting Bri Dressen face-to-face about two weeks ago here in D.C. when React19 was in contact with local representatives to push legislation that would provide compensation for those who have been injured by the Covid vaccines. I met a ton of wonderful people there. Their stories are very near and dear to my heart, and the supreme kindness and compassion that they have shown me is just incredible.

I met a woman there whose son graduated high school and died a week afterwards because of the vaccine. She was in D.C. with us and she showed me her picture of her son. I was alarmed by how much alike we looked. My birthday had just passed, and by mail she sent me a bunch of stuff by C. S. Lewis, because I mentioned in passing that I enjoyed his work. His work means a lot to me, so she got me his final novel, Till We Have Faces, a T-shirt with a quote of his on it, and a journal with another quote of his on it.

I thought, “I just met you and you’re giving me birthday gifts.” It’s incredible and humbling and it helps me. I do my best to reach out and spread awareness, to participate in things like this interview, in things like the Children’s Health Defense interview, and in doing what I can with React19 and the CanWeTalkAboutIt campaign.

I used to be very active on social media. I’m in the place where I need to take a break from that just because of the climate there which is very unpleasant. But I do my best to share what information I can with as many people as I can, no matter what the fact-checkers say about it.

Mr. Jekielek:
Let’s talk about that. Andre or Christian, either of you can jump in. Why would they be hostile?

Andre:
It’s not so much the hostility that affects me. I’m fortunate that I haven’t experienced as much hostility as many others have. There have been some people who have accused me of faking my symptoms when I’ve posted video documentation of my own symptoms trying to share my story. I acknowledged that some of the things that I experienced may look ridiculous.

I took martial arts and boxing lessons before I was injured. A lot of the Ballismus looks like I’m shadow-boxing or going through some martial arts form, even when I’m lying down. People say, “That can’t be right, because normal medical stuff doesn’t look like that.” I admit it does look ridiculous, but it doesn’t make it any less real.

Christian:
I’m not going to lie, I laughed a few times.

Andre:
I laughed too.

Christian:
I laughed at the absurdity of the situation. It’s like it comes straight out of a comic book or some strange comedy art film that was shoved into the back of Blockbuster.

Andre:
It’s not the hostility that affects me, it’s just the negativity of all of the things that are happening all of the time. Since I’ve been in this condition, my family and I have been researching about the cause of what’s going on and how many people have been affected. The more information that I’ve become privy to, the sadder it is to see what’s going on and just the heartbreaking sadness of the situation itself.

There are people dying, people wanting to die, and people losing loved ones. There are people whose lives have been turned upside down and who don’t have the luxury or even the blessing of a support system like I do. I count myself very, very, very fortunate, and I thank God that I do have the support system that I have. Because I know for a fact that many people who are vaccine injured do not have that support.

They have to seek support from others who are sick and ailing and suffering like them. I ran into a person on Facebook whose family, colleagues, and students dismissed him and abandoned him, and his body was tearing itself apart. He wants death, because he can see no other way out. It’s a terrible and heartbreaking thing to see.

He saw one of my videos of me going through an episode. He called me and said that I was his hero for being brave enough to share my experience and speak out against this. It’s just so sad to see people who stood up and did what our country asked of us to be treated so poorly.

About a year ago I wrote an open letter to Marvel Entertainment. They had released a comic as kind of like a PSA thing in combination with Pfizer about the importance of getting the vaccine, how the Avengers have to adapt in order to face Ultron, and have to adapt by taking this vaccine to defeat Covid.

In my letter I spoke at length about my admiration for superheroes, for heroics, and how that has formed and founded a lot of, if not all of my conceptions about how to treat others—making sure that you’re looking out for the little guy, standing up for what matters even at personal expense, and having great responsibility.

I said, “Why aren’t you, Marvel Industries, living by those same principles? You have written stories and sold stories to us for almost 70 years, but now you’re in bed with this big wig company and telling people to take a treatment that they haven’t been rightfully informed of, and that they can’t give proper informed consent for.

At the end of the letter I paraphrased Captain America who said that regardless of what politicians or celebrities say, if they’re telling you to do something that is against what you believe is right, it is your job to stand firm and be planted like a tree by the river of truth and say, “No, you move.'” That has been my attitude towards this. That has been my driving motivation—that we are the free people of the United States of America.

We have rights endowed to us by our creator, among which are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The power of the Capitol that is centered in this city is derived from the consent of the governed. It is their job to secure and to make our rights able to be practiced and not to infringe upon us. They cannot abridge our rights to medical freedom, our rights to inquire, our rights to research, and our rights to say, “I don’t want this. Maybe this isn’t good for me.”

Helping others and seeing the efforts of organizations like React19, Children’s Health Defense, and CanWeTalkAboutIt campaign are very moving to me and they help keep me going. My belief in Christ helps me to keep going. The Bible says that God is very near to those who are sick and downtrodden and that he will never turn away a voice that calls to him in sincerity.

I’ve called out to him audibly, sometimes angrily, but always sincerely. I know that he will have his way and that he sees and that he hears. If I know this isn’t right, he knows this isn’t right. A day will come when it will all be set right.

Christian:
You were asking us about why we think there’s so much hostility online and in the public discourse on the lived reality of millions of people. A massive aspect of it is that it is embarrassing and scary to be wrong. The narrative that we have been taught this entire time is that you can reflexively trust any institution because they said so and because they have authority, whatever that’s supposed to mean.

The narrative says that the product that they are administering and mandating, in contrast to your goodness as a person, your ability to employ yourself and protect your children, and your rights and freedoms, is safe and effective. It also says that the adverse reactions are rare and a non-concern for the average citizen, and that it is absolutely necessary that everyone participate and not ask questions and not be authentic and not be human.

Because this country has provided for us so much, and because I do believe America has to be the greatest country in the world, it’s very hard to look at it objectively. There are certainly populations that we recognize that have struggled, from all walks of life and from all ethnicities. There are still issues in society that have yet to be dealt with. But it is still true that in contrast to many places in the world and in contrast to much of history, we are extremely wealthy, very well-fed, and very entertained.

When the people providing such things to us tell us a thing, we want to believe them. Beyond just wanting to believe them, we actually do believe them. Because most people feel very comfortable calling on the government, and many aspects of our government are very useful in work. We have the fire department, we have the police, and we have ambulances.

Politicians do positive things for the community. There’s solidarity. We’re the melting pot of the world where our culture in many ways can be expressed most freely, even if there’s a lot of friction and contrast. But when something against your worldview asserts itself so starkly, unless you have had previous experience with dealing with that kind of a thing, or you have been invited into a space where that is okay, you feel very unsafe. That goes for the average citizen and also for many politicians.

I also believe that there was sufficient foreknowledge about the potential dangers of the indiscriminate administration of this medical product to the world population. Some people don’t want us to know that they messed up, that they made a mistake, and that they chose whatever it is that they chose for whatever reason that they chose it. That has now led to serious life-altering, terrible things and many, many, many deaths. They are not pretty ones that you want to talk about like, “My grandfather passed away peacefully in his sleep after having a nice life.”

No, it’s some kid who was 19-years-old and died a week after he graduated from high school. It was some guy who shot himself, and some guy who hung himself. This is not happy material, all caused by justifications about the greater good, loving grandma, and feeling beholden to people that are in positions of authority. There is no impetus to shake that up.

There has been some talk about misinformation, but a lot of it has been vaccine hesitancy. We don’t want people to hesitate, which is very different than saying that we don’t want people to do things that are bad for their health, like smoking, drinking too much, abusing and hurting themselves, or committing suicide.

The implication is that one shouldn’t hesitate. Then if you aren’t hesitating, you are complying. If you don’t have the right to think for yourself, if you don’t have the right to ask questions, and if you’re being demanded to obey by other people, what is obviously being asked for is reflexive compliance, which is the thing that our schools are supposed to be teaching us not to do.

We do book reports. From the time you’re in first grade you have to have material that you did not produce, analyze that material in context, and be able to organize that into a systematic that you can then present to other people. It can be judged not on how you feel, not on how convenient it is for you, but on how accurate it is to the text.

Even though many of our government schools are doing their best to teach everyday people, students young and old, to live a curious life, it doesn’t seem like that same moral lesson, that same ethic is being held to when things are uncomfortable. That ends up leading to people like us who are very much being left high and dry.

There is also the aspect where people have been given a narrative that they don’t have sufficient evidence to challenge. They see ridiculous things like what comprises so much of our lives, and they immediately assume or conclude based off of the information that they have that this has to be false, because this other thing is so clearly true.

It’s not that all the people are terrible or that the government is just one big evil mess. There are a lot of complicated things going on. There is evil and neglect, but there is also a lack of shared information. The more free dialogue that we’re allowed to have without having to be afraid of being wrong, without having to be afraid of losing our jobs or having different legal things levied at you because you’re not complying, the better world we’ll be able to live in, and the more reason we will actually have to trust and be amenable to one another, because there is no coercion.

Mr. Jekielek:
Andre and Christian, what would it mean to you to have a society that accepts that Covid vaccine injury is real and comes in a variety of forms where people’s lives are sometimes irrevocably altered?

Andre:
I care much more for the benefit of people who are suffering worse than I am than for myself, if for no other reason than I have my family and I have my God and I know that they watch over me. But reparation for me is only really tangible through action. It’s one thing to say, “Oh, this happened.” It’s another thing to say, “Oh, this is a problem. How do we go about fixing it?”

To me, that is the crux of the issue—people either not acknowledging or ignoring the fact that there’s a problem, and then because of that not searching for solutions. If people acknowledge that vaccine injuries are real, that they can devastate families, that they can devastate individuals, and that they can bring them to the brink or over the precipice of death and actually be moved to help the people who have been crying for it for years, I would be satisfied.

Until then I’m going to keep on fighting for awareness and fighting for freedom and truth and justice and decency. Because the people who experienced this are no different than the people who haven’t. It’s a humanitarian crisis. It’s an issue we face as human beings. Whether we vote red or blue, we all bleed red, we all breathe the same air, we all come from the same earth, and we all turn into ash when our life is over.

We need to be less fixated on the things that contrast us, what our political stances are, what our medical stances are, what our religious stances are, and more focused on the fact that we’re all human beings. We’re all one big, extended family, so we should act like a family acts. My family acts like a family acts. We stick together and travel in a pack.

I was in Annapolis, Maryland a few months ago in order to help support a bill that would prevent students and other government employees from being mandated to take the Covid vaccine. We were getting turned around from our car to the office by google maps. What should have been a 15-minute walk became a 40-minute walk. My mom was having a hard time keeping up because of her knees, and she was apologizing for all the breaks she had to take. I said, “No, mom, either we travel together or not at all.” That’s family.

In the film, “Lilo and Stitch,” there is a quote, “Ohana means family, which means no one is left behind or forgotten.” A lot of people have been left behind. A lot of people feel left behind, and until people start looking back and picking each other up, the problem isn’t going to be solved. That’s what people acknowledging this would mean to me, and that we act like we ought to act.

Christian:
I don’t think there’s really too much I can add to that. There has been a lot of tribalism of all kinds; religious, political, and racial, that has been permeating the entire situation and that has inflamed this situation. I have realized in our shared situation that things being the way they are, it’s very hard to feel like an actual person.

Because as an individual I have a decent sense of an internal locus of control. I have values. I try to do things that I like and do things that I care about, but there is a mirroring effect that is necessary for a healthy psyche that is lacking in a very fractured society.

Mr. Jekielek:
Do you mean people are not seeing themselves in others?

Christian:
There is also the lack of empathy, because there’s a reason that children die faster without affection than without food and without water. My mom has had a thing that she said ever since we were little kids, that adults are just big kids. I’ve thought about that and it’s like we all want our sandwiches cut a certain way. We like the temperature at the perfect Goldilocks zone. We appreciate good humor and we still want to play, even when it’s business time. I don’t think any of that stuff is bad.

But when challenges in life show up, which societies and countries set out to solve, they’re meant to insulate us from death and from the sense of death, which can very much be one of isolation, of abandonment, and of being dearly discarded. We end up being very focused on symbols, signals, flags, particular kinds of clothing, or whether or not you carry certain cards in your wallet to prove that you did the right thing.

You just end up losing the point. You don’t see yourself or other people as persons. You see them as extensions of gnostic Asian concepts that just float around. People come before concepts. I do believe that good and evil are real. I believe that there are ontological solids that we draw upon when we make decisions and when we craft and interact with symbols or discover them for the first time.

But when it comes to the ordering of a society for the organization of a person, of a soul, it’s like good can only be understood in relationship to people, in relationship to the willing observer. To have it be an arbitrary gesture, that one movement, that one action that comprises goodness is a total misunderstanding of what it is. Because as Jesus himself said, “Love your Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. Against such things there is no law.”

Nobody lives up to that, and I sure don’t. I’m okay with saying that, because it’s not about me having to live up to it. It’s about a recognition of the facts about myself, about God and other people, and the pursuit toward the better. That pursuit toward the better can’t be through coercion. It can’t be, “If we just do the right symbols, if we look like this, if we refer back to some bygone time or to some chromium laden perception of the future, we’ll be okay.” The future is now.

As much as I love everyone in the room right now, I really wish that we didn’t have to meet under these circumstances. We could have been working on some other creative project, met each other in the street, or never met at all, and things would have been 10,000 times better.

For me, really acknowledging the situation is doing the work that humanity has always been doing, which is learning how to be human. Part of that is taking accountability and responsibility when you’re wrong and actually meaning it, and not just trying to say words and pay people off, because there has been a level of recognition.

People talk about myocarditis, but it’s just a symbol. They’re like, “Myocarditis happens, but it’s still safe and effective. Everything’s great, and just listen. Don’t research, don’t think, We were wrong that time, but don’t think about that. Do what we say.”

It’s not just hypocritical, it’s abusive, and it’s manipulative. We have to treat each other like people and not just use humanitarianism or anything else as a proxy for actual empathy and love. Either you love people, or you don’t. Either you care about them, or you don’t.

That doesn’t mean you have to do it perfectly, but it does mean, as the Bible puts it, “The righteous man falls seven times and rises again.” You have to get back on the horse and try to make better decisions. You have to acknowledge that you’ve fallen. Until that happens, no signal, no button press, no election, and no amount of money is going to undo the fact that any of this happened.

Mr. Jekielek:
Andre, a final thought as we finish?

Andre:
He’s a really tough act to follow. He said he didn’t have much to add, but he just wrote a whole book. But jokes aside, here are my final thoughts. One, I appreciate you and The Epoch Times for being a shining beacon of actual journalism in an age where journalism has very much become just government PR. I thank you for having me here, for allowing me and my brother the space to share our story. And for allowing the space for others like me to share their stories. This is, like Christian said, going to be hard. I wish and many people that I have met have wished that this would just stop, but it won’t.

But if we keep on doing this work and if we try to honor each other as the glorious God-made human beings that we are, then every day is a step closer to victory. Every video recording, every comment, every like, every share, and every conversation is one step in the right direction. You take enough steps, and before you know it, you’re at the finish line. I’m going to keep persevering. My family is going to keep persevering. I just ask that whoever sees this would hear me, hear my brother, and hear my family. Look into the facts for yourself, and hopefully join this fight.

Mr. Jekielek:
Andre and Christian Cherry, it’s such a pleasure to have you on the show.

Andre:
It’s a pleasure. Thank you very much, Jan.

Christian:
It’s a pleasure to meet you. Thank you.

Mr. Jekielek:
Moderna did not immediately respond to our request for comment. Thank you all for joining Andre and Christian Cherry and me on this episode of American Thought Leaders. I’m your host, Jan Jekielek.

This interview has been edited for clarity and brevity.