She Escaped North Korea 3 Times. Half of Her Family Didn’t Survive | Grace Jo

[RUSH TRANSCRIPT BELOW]Grace Jo was born in North Korea and nearly starved to death as a child during the country’s devastating famine in the 1990s.

Her father crossed into China in search of food for his family, only to be tortured and die after returning to North Korea. Her grandmother and two younger brothers died of starvation. And her oldest sister disappeared while searching for food. The family suspects she became a victim of human trafficking in China.

Jo still remembers that her grandmother’s dying wish was to eat a baked potato. It was a wish the family could not fulfill.

At six years old, Jo first crossed the Tumen River into China with her mother and sister. In China, they lived in hiding—ever fearful of being sent back to North Korea. Jo was repatriated twice before finally escaping North Korea for the last time.

Her story is a haunting account of survival, loss, and hope that shows the brutal reality of life under North Korea’s regime and the determination, resilience, and sheer luck it takes to escape it.

In 2008, with the help of a missionary, Jo, her mother, and her older sister made it to the United States. She became a U.S. citizen in 2013.

Today, she is the founder of the Broken Chains Foundation, formerly the Grace Jo Foundation. And through the Dissident Project, she speaks regularly at schools and other venues, sharing her story to educate young people about the realities of totalitarian and communist regimes.

Views expressed in this video are opinions of the host and the guest, and do not necessarily reflect the views of The Epoch Times.

RUSH TRANSCRIPT

Jan Jekielek:

Grace Jo, such a pleasure to have you on American Thought Leaders.

Grace Jo:

It’s my great pleasure to be here.

Mr. Jekielek:

Grace, you escaped from North Korea. A truly unbelievable story. Tell me your story. How did you get out?

Ms. Jo:

It’s a long story in short. The first escape happened when I was six years old. It was back in 1998. I was able to cross the river with my mother’s help. My mother was carrying me in her backpack, and my mother was holding my sister’s hand. So, three of us were able to cross the river by half swimming and half walking. And we crossed the river in only about 30 minutes. And then we finally reached the land of China. And that was the beginning of our journey. 

And we were wandering in China for 10 years, and we were seeking help, and we were seeking refuge. But because the Chinese government is not allowing us or recognizing us as refugees, we were forcefully sent back to North Korea multiple times. The United Nations recognized our family as refugees, so it granted us refugee status, and we were able to escape the dictatorship regime back in 2008. And we were able to flee with a flight from China to America, and we finally found freedom in America.

Mr. Jekielek:

I’ve interviewed a number of people who have escaped North Korea, and it strikes me that, you know, crossing the river, obviously very difficult, across into China. But even being sent back, in some cases, when people are sent back, they’re killed, right? Just tell me, dig into this story for me a little more, because I think that for us living in a free society, it’s difficult to understand how it works over there. And I want to kind of explore that through your experiences.

Ms. Jo:

For my family, actually, it was very close to the moment that we were sentenced forever, for a lifetime in North Korea, and probably my life would have ended up differently. And my life could have been lived for a couple of years in the political prison camp, and due to the hardship, I probably already died. Another path that was in front of us was public execution as a whole family, but we were very lucky. We did not end up there. We finally found another chance and then were able to escape.

The main help came from the Korean American missionary. His name was Phillip Buck, and he was able to bribe the six officers from North Korea at the time and was able to rescue our family back in 2006. And it was our last attempt to escape North Korea at the time. So, with the $10,000 bribing money, we changed the documentation and were able to be released from the prison. If that help didn’t arrive on time, our family probably would have ended up differently. I cannot really imagine if that had happened to our family.

Mr. Jekielek:

Tell me what life was like in North Korea. What made you try to leave that first time in the late 90s?

Ms. Jo:

So, back in the late 90s, I had a big family, with eight family members. I had two younger brothers, two older sisters, a grandmother, a father, and a mother. But my memory when I was six-years-old was that every day we were constantly cold and hungry. I remember for almost 10 days straight, we were just starving and drinking only cold water. We were able to collect water from the stream next to our house. And we were very lucky to have that because many people didn’t have water resources at the time.

We were able to collect water, bring it home, pour it into a big jar, and then as little girls and boys, we would drink water from the big jar every day. Adults in the family, like my father and my mother, were fighting every day to look for food. My grandmother was helping the little children in the family. My 10-year-old sister and 17-year-old sister were always going to the mountain in the morning. When dusk came, they would wrap their feet with plastic and wear shoes, trying to protect their feet from snakes or water. Then they would come home late at night with bags of wild vegetables. 

So our daily food relied on wild vegetables and tree bark. I also remember some of the tree leaves that we could consume. Whatever we could consume from nature, we tried to collect everything. But that didn’t help. At the end of June 1998, my grandmother passed away from starvation, and her last wish was to eat one baked potato. But my family at the time was not able to provide that. And my father passed away while he was looking for food. 

His crime was that he brought a bag of rice from our distant relatives in China, and he crossed the border without a legal passport. He became an illegal immigrant and a criminal. He was tortured. He was beaten so badly in the prison cell during his interview with the officers. So, when he was transferring from a detention center in the countryside to the city for the legal trial, he passed away on a train. But the government just notified us with a single word and said, my father was a criminal and he passed away. So, with that heartbreaking news, my mother decided to leave our home.

But the last straw was right after my grandmother passed away. Actually, six officers from our hometown visited our family and kind of told us to leave the village. And the last words they said were, if we don’t leave the home within 15 days, they will come back and check. And if we are still living there, then they will burn our house down. 

So those were the last words, a warning from our government officers. They’re supposed to protect us; they’re supposed to provide food and housing for our family, but they denied our citizenship and were kicking us out of the village. So my mother said, this is not the country we can rely on. So she decided to leave our home. It took like three, almost four days for us to reach the border and cross the border into China.

Mr. Jekielek:

So, this was the river that you’re talking about now?

Ms. Jo:

The Tumen River is the border between China and North Korea. And almost all North Korean defectors have to cross that river to cross the border.

Mr. Jekielek:

Wow. You basically had absolutely no choice.

Ms. Jo:

Well, for North Korean people in North Korea, we don’t have a choice. We only have obedience. We only need to follow whatever they tell us. My mother and my father have to listen to the leaders or the government officers. So we don’t have any freedom to choose or to make a decision in our country.

Mr. Jekielek:

When your mother decided to cross that river, I mean, there’s a good chance that you’re not going to make it.

Ms. Jo:

Actually, each time when we cross, our heart is like shrinking into a really tiny little nut. At the border, we have to hide under the bush and we have to look around and observe to make sure no soldier will catch us from behind. And after we thought that’s safe, then we would start to move quietly and slowly and efficiently. Otherwise, if an officer, whoever is guarding the border, if they are watching us or if they found us, they are always allowed to shoot us at any time.

Mr. Jekielek:

You must have been a very disciplined five-year-old.

Ms. Jo:

I was. I think my mother was a very strong and strict woman in the family. So I remember my brothers and sisters. We never got wild in the house. We always tried to act, and before I acted, we tried to watch our surroundings and obey and just be a good girl and good boy in the family. Otherwise, we would not be able to survive each moment.

Mr. Jekielek:

After the river, you kind of went into the mountains, if I understand that correctly.

Ms. Jo:

The journey is actually after we locked up our log cabin in the countryside. And my mother, she actually made us line up in front of the house and observe the scene and look at the sky. And it was a very clean nighttime, full of stars. And she said one word to us, but at the time, we did not understand. After I became an adult, I finally understood what that meant. So she told me that boys and girls should look at this scene and remember it. This is your home. This is your origin. No matter where you go in the world after you grow up, don’t forget this is your origin. 

So I did not know because after we escaped our home, we always had to change our identity, hide our identity, and lie to people. We came from different hometowns in China, or we escaped from different countries, or we came from South Korea. We always had to hide our identity because we didn’t want anyone to find out that we came from North Korea. 

When I was seven to twelve-years-old, I actually believed that I was the same girl or the same people as other Chinese girls because we were talking the same language at the time. We were eating the same things and wearing the same clothes. I didn’t really realize the difference. 

But when I was twelve-years-old, we got caught in China, and we were forcefully repatriated to North Korea. So at that time, I realized, okay, I was born in North Korea because I am a North Korean citizen. I shouldn’t be the same as other girls. We don’t have any rights. So that was the first time I realized the difference between North Koreans and Chinese citizens. And each time when we escape we have to walk on an unpaved road. We have to hide in the mountains. We will, of course, starve, and we will manage ourselves to get to the border and then cross the border to China.

Mr. Jekielek:

What happened to your other siblings?

Ms. Jo:

This is one of the heartbreaking pieces of news for our family to hear back in early 2000. So, my oldest sister went missing before we crossed the border for the first time. Back in 1998, after my father passed away, my mother was tortured and delivered a premature baby at eight months old. And then my grandmother was very old and barely moving. So my seventeen-year-old girl became the breadwinner in the family. So she went to the village and the city to look for food. And her last word was a promise to us, and she said, mom and sister, I will be back with you.The food, the latest, will be midnight today or tomorrow midnight. But that promise was never fulfilled. 

It has been almost twenty-six years, and we don’t know what happened to her. Each time when we got caught and sent back to North Korea, we were always looking for news of her and asking people and relatives, but we were not able to hear a single word about her. So the last conclusion is that she was probably sold into human trafficking. She was not able to escape, so she was not able to come back to our country or to us.

Mr. Jekielek:

What about, and so you and your sister went with your mother across? What about the others?

Ms. Jo:

Yes, so that was my oldest sister and my two younger brothers. Actually, the youngest brother, after he was born prematurely, about two months later, died of starvation. And because my oldest sister got missing and my mom left home to search for my missing sister. And then that searching journey took almost two months. 

And for two months, my grandmother was still alive at the moment, and my 10-year-old sister, she was carrying the baby, going to the village and begging for milk and food. But that’s only for the short term. For the long term, we were also going to the mill work and collecting leftover corn skin powder, making porridge and feeding the baby. No nutrition at all. So, the baby suffered for two months with malnutrition and he died. 

And another brother, he was four years old at the time. My father  was in prison at the time. So, my mother asked one of the ladies in the village to watch him for five days. And we promised that family that my mom would be back and bring him with her. But that promise didn’t fulfill as well because after we crossed the river to China, there’s a huge water flow and then high security reasons and so many reasons she couldn’t go back on time. 

So, two months later, we sent a messenger, like with a strong gentleman with the money to look for my brother. But we actually sent two messengers, but they both came back with the heartbreaking news, which was the family was watching him for about a week, almost a month and a half, but he got kicked out from the family. He was walking around the village looking for sisters and mom. 

And one of the ladies in the village was pitying him and took him inside of their house, provided one bowl of porridge. But after he drank that porridge, he never woke up. So that’s our younger brother’s story. And by the time we already lost a father, grandmother, my oldest sister went missing, my youngest brother already died in starvation, and the only brother also died in that situation. So it was very heartbreaking for us to hear when we were in China.

Mr. Jekielek:

It’s very, very, thank you for sharing this with me. It’s really hard to imagine the realities that you’re describing for most of us here. We live in such a land of plenty. What’s it like being here when you think about the reality in North Korea?

Ms. Jo:

When we arrived in America back in 2008, one of the reporters asked us, and we responded to them, we feel like we came to heaven. And of course, many people made fun of it. But still, I feel like it’s heaven compared to North Korean people who are still living there. It’s because we are full of materials. We have freedom here. We have freedom of speech, freedom of movement. We can do anything that we want to do here. But in North Korea, nothing was able to be done. And people nowadays, at this moment, there are still people dying by starvation.

Mr. Jekielek:

Do you feel like the people in this country maybe don’t fully appreciate what they have?

Ms. Jo:

I think so. I can’t speak on behalf of American citizens, but even my family and myself, after I came to America, it’s been almost 18 years now, and I feel like I am spoiled right now. So I started to compare something, and if it’s not happening that I wished for, then I start to complain. And when my mom hears, she says, just think about North Korea, just think about your childhood, be grateful. And then I will wake up and say, yes, that’s right. That’s right. I should be grateful and thankful, and I shouldn’t be complaining about it.

Mr. Jekielek:

Well, so I understand you don’t want to, you know, sort of say Americans are bad or don’t, you know, all this. I get that. That’s not what I’m asking about. It’s more like, well, how about this? You know, what would you say to Americans who feel like they have it really bad here, right? Even some people have difficult times in their lives. A lot of people struggle. People have suicidal ideation sorts of difficulties, right? But I guess perspective is helpful. You see, understand? That’s what I’m trying. Like, what do you say to people that, you know, think they have it really bad when you kind of understand a quite extreme version of what it’s like to have it really bad?

Ms. Jo:

Well, I think perseverance, and for our family, somehow when the challenges come to us, we don’t think about giving up first. We always think, what can we do to overcome that challenge? We always think that. And of course, there are so many different challenges that we almost get close to giving up. And of course, we are heartbroken and disappointed, and all the moments come. 

So when we come to America during the resettlement, our core beliefs as Christians also give us courage. And prayer and not giving up. And we always believe that there’s a way we can go through. I think that’s a positive belief that makes changes when we face challenges and difficulties. It comes to us.

Mr. Jekielek:

Because initially, when we were speaking, I was thinking to myself, my goodness, they tried to get, they went three times, right? They escaped three times. Massive risk. I just don’t feel like I know because I’ve spoken with many people in North Korea. I’ve read enough about the reality of what it means to cross the border. A lot of people just don’t make it. Most people don’t make it when they even try to cross it one time. You guys went three times. I’m beginning to understand why you went three times because of what you experienced, right? But can you frame that for me a little bit? Like, you guys were pretty serious about getting out in a way that, you know, most people don’t even get the opportunity.

Ms. Jo:

Yes, and to be able to successfully escape three times is very lucky. It’s the thing in our life, and I’m very grateful for God leading us a path to meet great people. I think when we meet those people, even in North Korea or even in China, we are very grateful for those people who helped our family. Without them, we probably wouldn’t be able to get here.They fed us; some people provided us shoes or clothes, and some people actually took us by riding in a car from point A to B safely. 

Because from North Korea, getting to the border is very challenging. So someone must have helped my mom to lead the way. And then when we got to the border, of course, it was a very dangerous moment. We realized there were two soldiers catching crawfish in the Tumen River. But there’s a curve in the river. And then after we crossed the river to China, they were just turning the curve. If we were five minutes late, they would see us, and we probably would have already gotten caught. 

And then the second time when we crossed the border, it was nighttime, and my mom had to bribe the soldier at the border. So, like each moment is a very dangerous moment for us. It was just a live or die moment. And each time, I will say it’s a miracle of God. That’s the only word I can describe.

Mr. Jekielek:

Well, that’s one of the questions. Like, do you feel providence in this? That was going to be my next question. And clearly, you do, right? You see the hand of God in this. So now you actually work to support North Korean refugees. That’s like the center. Tell me about what you do now.

Ms. Jo:

Right now, I live as an American citizen. I don’t have children yet, although I have two dogs. But I’m still thinking about my home country, my younger brothers who died of starvation, and my grandmother who passed away. My ultimate goal is to visit my home country in the future and for it to have freedom. But for now, what can we do? We’re always thinking about that. 

After I gained freedom here, I graduated from college, and now I have a home and family here. But there are so many people who are not able to express their hunger. They are not able to express their lack of freedom, and they’re not able to find freedom because of high border security right now, and the economy has changed so much. 

Crossing the border only costs 13,000 U.S. dollars, which for North Korean people is almost impossible for us to provide to the brokers. So, whoever’s stuck in North Korea, they’re still suffering. We know what’s happening there, and it’s very hard for us to ignore that and not tell the world and ask for help. 

My sister and I founded an organization called North Korea Refugees in USA [NKinUS] back in 2008 that ran until 2019, but because we both had health issues and personal issues, we closed it down. We came back with a foundation called the Grace Jo Foundation. I’m hoping to help more people in North Korea, but as a young woman, it’s very difficult. So I’m asking the community for help to work together to make changes in North Korea. 

These days, I’m realizing there are so many people in other countries, not only North Korea, that have refugees. They’re facing similar challenges because the government and leader made the wrong choice, and the government became a socialist country, and the people are suffering. So, my heart always goes out to people who have a similar background like our family and still suffer. Then, so many people gave us chances and help, and that’s why I’m here, and I survived. 

I would like to be one of the persons who can help them in the future. I’m hoping to help a young generation from North Korea or the same country like Venezuela and other countries that have a refugee background. If they want to study hard in America, if they want to become the bridge, I want to be the person who can reach out to them and be able to help. Because I believe the young generation, we have to study and prepare so then we can become the bridge between the country that’s isolated and be able to connect to the world. So that’s our current goal and hope for the organization.

Mr. Jekielek:

So recently, there have been a number of different surveys done that show that a lot of young people in America—I think it’s more than 50 per cent—have a very positive view of socialism. What’s your reaction to that?

Ms. Jo:

I feel like the young generation needs to learn more about the outcome of socialist countries. North Korea is a great example, but there is so limited information we can collect. But right now, we have a different country. They are suffering, and their economy is collapsing because they are socialist countries. In a textbook, when we read it, it looks beautiful. Maybe it’s doable, but in reality, it’s not possible. 

As young people in America, we should learn history, and we should be open-minded and be able to hear more of those outcomes from the refugees and from those people who already went through that history. Then when we become the leader, and when we’re making the choices, we can make the correct choices for our country. Freedom itself is not given for free. 

Our ancestors in America fought for freedom, right? There has been so much blood already shed on this land so that nowadays we can enjoy freedom. In my country, we did not have that strong ancestor who could fight for freedom. So right now, they are suffering there. 

So hopefully, in America, young generations in the future, we can protect freedom for our next generation. I’m educating young students through the distantprojects group. I’m traveling to high schools in America and sharing our family story and my life challenges stories with them. Then, young people can be aware of human issues, human rights, and the socialist and dictatorship worlds so they can make the right choices.

Mr. Jekielek:

Excellent. I’d love to sit in on one of those one of these days. That’s wonderful that you’re doing that. I think one of our big challenges is I think people have been taught not very well about what the outcomes of socialism and communism instituted in societies, basically. I can tell you’re very grateful to be here. I feel the same way. I’m actually also an immigrant here, but I’m from Canada. So, a more similar country, although Canadians don’t like to admit that. Tell me the name of your organization again. If someone wants to get involved, how can they get involved? And are you looking for people?

Ms. Jo:

As an American citizen, there are many ways you can get involved. Of course, first is prayer. Please put North Korean refugees on your prayer list so then God can hear us and be able to help individuals. Secondly, I’m also working as a public speaker through the Dissident Project at  dissidentproject.org.  We have a similar background, refugees and human rights activists working as speakers. 

Public schools and private schools can book the speakers through dissidentproject.org. Then the company will book for their tickets and hotels, and speakers can go to school and provide the stories, like first hand stories from the speakers, to be able to educate the young generation. Personally, I would like to get involved more in the community and be able to help students. I do that through the Grace Jo Foundation. You can be a part of that by praying for the organization, and for that I will be very grateful.

Mr. Jekielek:

So your foundation works to support North Korean refugees specifically. And then this other group works to do the speaking and education.

Ms. Jo:

Yes, for the young Americans.

Mr. Jekielek:

Okay, wonderful. What is the most important thing you want people to understand about North Korea?

Ms. Jo:

Thank you for asking that question. So, when I’m meeting people in America, when I introduce myself and say I came from North Korea, the first reaction is North Korea. And then in their mind, the first thing that comes is the missiles and the nuclear weapon, and then Kim Jong Un and the regime, the power.I would like to ask Americans to think about North Korean citizens. We are a people. Our goal is just very simple. We want our freedom. We want to have more opportunities to help families to find food.

But in North Korea, we don’t have any freedom, so we cannot make choices for our family. We don’t have any freedom to choose our career. We don’t have the freedom to travel, so we cannot bring goods. From the other state to our own state freely without government permission. And we don’t have the freedom to speak. So we cannot really complain to the community and say, hey, our leader is not doing good or we are poor because of our leadership. We cannot say that. 

But right now, our current generation, we know that’s true, but we cannot speak out and do anything because we fear our government and leadership. They will punish three generations in the family if we do anything like that, like my grandmother, my father, my mother, and myself. When we were growing up, the people in the village were very nice. They’re kind, and we love to share food and love to share culture and love to share love with each other. But because of the regime, all the love has ceased. I want American people to think about: we are people, not the regime, and not the nuclear weapon. We are people who are seeking help.

Mr. Jekielek:

So, you became a U.S. citizen in 2013, is that right? So, what was that like? What did it mean to you?

Ms. Jo:

I remember when we were standing up and raising our right hand and then swearing the oath ceremony. And when the moment comes,I feel very emotional because before I became a U.S. citizen, we were protected by the UN and we were refugees, but we did not have a home country because we were denied back in our home country, North Korea, and we had to forcefully leave our home country. And we were wandering in China for 10 years, but each time we got caught and sent back to North Korea forcefully. 

The North Korean government did not acknowledge us. They always put us into prison and watched us 24 hours, and we were not able to find any opportunity to leave again as North Korean citizens back in my country. So I always felt like I was an international orphan because no one really welcomed us, and no one really was able to let us have a home. My mom’s dream was to have a home in her lifetime. My siblings and I were thinking, we just want to have a country that we can call home. 

Now, this is my home country. When we’re receiving U.S. citizenship, we feel like I finally belong to the United States, which means I finally belong somewhere and can call or introduce someone and say, hey, I came from America, and I’m an American citizen. I have a home country. I have a powerful country behind us to protect us. I am no longer an international orphan. So that was a very heavy and strong emotional moment for me.

Mr. Jekielek:

So, what about the fact that it’s the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence?

Ms. Jo:

I feel very emotional about that too. America is the strongest and most powerful country, according to my understanding. That’s why North Korea hates America, because America is strong. America found freedom 250 years ago, and I’m very grateful that I can celebrate that moment. I really hope that for the next 250 years, we can protect and enjoy the same freedom that we have today.

Mr. Jekielek:

Do you have any final thoughts as we finish up?

Ms. Jo:

My final thought is I love my home country, and I love my people in North Korea, but I just oppose the regime. No matter where you are, or whether you are a policymaker or decision-maker for the policies, please think about the people, not the regime. Because there are so many sanctions and a lot of changes. North Korean human rights activists, we are trying to help North Korean people individually in North Korea. We have limitations, and we are not able to help them like we helped in the beginning or in the past.

So I would like to ask Americans to think about North Korea as a human country, and we would like to have the same freedom that we are enjoying in America. So please pray for them and think about them, and please be open-hearted so that you can embrace more people from other countries, more Graces, to be able to enter America as refugees. So thank you very much.

Mr. Jekielek:

Well, Grace Jo, it’s such a pleasure to have had you on.

Ms. Jo:

Thank you very much for having me.

 

This interview was partially edited for clarity and brevity.