Trump’s NATO Comments, the Tucker-Putin Interview, and the WHO Pandemic Treaty: Historian and Estonian Official Anti Poolamets

[FULL TRANSCRIPT BELOW] “It looks very legitimate when the President speaks, yes, but I don’t believe a word when a KGB man speaks … This was a propaganda message for [the] American public first.”

Anti Poolamets is an Estonian historian and a prominent member of the Conservative People’s Party. He is an outspoken supporter of Donald Trump’s policies concerning Europe, and an equally fierce critic of Vladimir Putin’s expansionist ambitions and his invasion of Ukraine.

“Trump was a man with [a] backbone and [the] biggest supporter of Ukraine,” says Mr. Poolamets. “Trump was [the] first who gave lethal weapons to Ukraine.”

In this episode, Mr. Poolamets and I discuss Tucker Carlson’s recent interview with Vladimir Putin, whether the Russian president’s version of history stands up to scrutiny, and how the European Green Deal and the World Health Organization’s International Health Regulations are threatening the global economy and state sovereignty.

“We can’t give away our sovereignty, and the EU is becoming more and more federal. [The] Green Deal is simply destroying European economies, and this is like the Soviet Four-Year Plan,” says Mr. Poolamets.

Views expressed in this video are opinions of the host and the guest, and do not necessarily reflect the views of The Epoch Times.

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Jan Jekielek:
Anti Poolamets, such a pleasure to have you on American Thought Leaders.

Anti Poolamets:
Nice to see you.

Mr. Jekielek:
I’ve been wanting to get some perspectives from Europe on the WHO Pandemic Treaty and international health regulations. But there is news relevant to you that has come up. Recently, former President Trump said, “Russia can do whatever they want to NATO nations that don’t pay.” What did you make of this?

Mr. Poolamets:
This is quite a big topic in Estonia because we are a border country to Russia and this security umbrella is highly important for us. When he was president Trump said, “You must start spending. You can’t build an army with this money, and the U.S. is not the only country who must pay.” It’s the same argument, but with a lot of pepper inside.

His argument is absolutely correct. He is saying, “Please start spending because there is a big war in Europe. Do something. Your spending is 1 percent or less of the GDP in many countries.” When Trump said this during his presidency, the NATO countries really started to raise their military expenditures, and it was a great thing. Even our neighbor country, Latvia, started to seriously react to Trump’s comments.

We must look at what Trump really did. During his Presidency, he seriously strengthened NATO capabilities. In Trump’s case, it is to be aware of his deeds, because his words can create some panic, especially for countries who don’t spend 2 percent of GDP. Estonia now spends 3.3 percent. It’s remarkable. We are in line with Greece, England, and Poland. Of course, it created international turmoil because Trump is target number one. Liberals tried to smear him, which was very unfair.

Mr. Jekielek:
First of all, as you said, Estonia has met its requirements. In theory, his statement should be fine, but perhaps it was a bit hyperbolic. Even Stoltenberg himself said that the comments were meant for the member states, not about the validity of NATO, which is actually another question. There are a lot of questions about NATO. We’re on the tail end of the Tucker Carlson interview with Russian President Vladimir Putin. NATO came up as a hot topic in that interview.

Mr. Poolamets:
Of course. This is being discussed everywhere and yes, it was an interesting interview. But in general, I must say that Putin just repeated his propaganda. He practically waged information warfare against the victims and against the American public. Nothing new really came out.

To some extent Carlson didn’t ask certain questions. Were these questions pre-prepared and Putin didn’t allow him to ask certain questions, like about the suffering in Ukraine and loss of Russian soldiers? But he liked to speak about how Christian he is and about God and the Russian soul.

The leopards don’t really change their spots, and there are KGB leopards in the Russian leadership. The KGB fought against Christianity. Do you believe that they became Christians overnight? This is just a facade.

It is actually an old KGB clique that is ruling Russia. What they really have inside them is an imperial mindset. Imperialism is their main focus and they want to dominate. They are nostalgic about the loss of their occupied countries, their spheres of influence, and Ukraine is part of that.

Mr. Jekielek:
There was debate in the U.S. on whether this interview should have happened at all. Of course we should try to interview a world leader, and I appreciate Tucker Carlson for having done this. He did call for the release of the Wall Street Journal journalist imprisoned in Russia.

Putin said, “From our perspective, it’s espionage.” The message was if we decide it’s espionage, then it’s espionage. It was a reminder that Russia is a dictatorship and there isn’t a functioning rule of law.

Mr. Poolamets:
There is no rule of law, and the state is not functioning normally. There were 10 years of confusion in Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union. At the end of the first decade, the KGB came back to power under the official flag of the presidency and others. It is this KGB security clique that controls the elections. There are no free elections and even the first elections of Putin weren’t free. They were manipulated.

Today it’s totally not free, and any real competitors are cut off by them saying, “Their support signatures are invalid.” But this is not simply Russia in peace time. Now, it is a country at war. This is the reason why they take American journalists as hostages, for example.

This is hostage taking. This is an attempt to manipulate and control. Somehow, it’s like Iran. Russia tries to look like a Christian country, but it’s a very dangerous country. I can say that from much experience and research.

Mr. Jekielek:
The Orthodox Christian Church has revived itself since communism in Russia. I don’t think anyone would disparage that.

Mr. Poolamets:
That’s true. But we must consider that the state and church are quite united in Russia. They’re not like Catholics having their own pope or understandings, and sometimes being critical of the state. The former KGB found somehow the way to continue was to project a human face. Going to church gives them a human face.

In Estonia, there were also former communists who suddenly appeared at churches. Whereas, 10 years ago, if they saw a young person entering a church, they would send a letter to the director of their school, telling them to throw out this kind of bad student.

Russian dissidents are correct in this way. I spoke to Vladimir Bukovsky, who also tried to be Russian President, but he was immediately eliminated from the list. His opinion was clear that this KGB clique controls the country, and they came back after the period of confusion. We must look not at just this one interview, but their mentality in general, and why they said these things.

I saw this Putin interview for three days, again and again and again. I understood that this was first a propaganda message for the American public, not so much for the European public. But Carlson is American, and everything was in the right place. Putin humiliated Carlson by giving a strange, amateur historical lecture in the beginning that took half-an-hour. Can you imagine? He said, “I will speak for 30 seconds.”

He said that the second World War began because Poland didn’t make a compromise with Hitler. With Poland, it is their guilt that the second World War began. The first thing is he starts to blame Poland for the beginning of the second World War. He said, “Hitler tried to negotiate with Poland, but Poland was not ready for compromise, and then it all started.”

Mr. Jekielek:
I noticed that bit of historical revisionism at the beginning. Just overall, when Putin says Americans, he’s really saying globalists. He’s calling the Americans the globalist regime in this particular discussion.

I know you are no fan of the globalist structures, and being from a former Soviet state you’re clearly not a fan of Russia under Vladimir Putin. Can you explain all of this to us?

Mr. Poolamets:
Putin tries to find the weak points in his adversaries and undermine American fighting morale in supporting Ukraine. It’s very well-targeted. “Undermine the moral,” said Yuri Bezmenov, a Soviet who defected to the West. He said that the most important task was to undermine an enemy’s morale, and to demoralize the American public. That was clearly visible in the interview. Of course, Putin tried to find some sensitive points and said, “Your national debt is too big. You have border problems.” He knew very well where to point.

From my point of view, it doesn’t mean that Americans don’t support liberty anymore. In the beginning of the interview, Putin said that Ukraine is practically a non-state and non-nation. It is an artificial state and artificial nation. But you Americans can remember what the British Empire said, “Some strange colonists are making a mutiny, some revolutionary war. It’s very bad. They are no state. They are no nation.”

But America became a big nation and a big state. The same is true about Ukraine. After Ukraine comes out from this terrible fight, they will become one of the leading countries in Europe. They are the biggest country in Europe.

Mr. Jekielek:
Anti, you’re a conservative Estonian politician, and a member of parliament. You’re also a historian. Please tell us about your life and how you got to today.

Mr. Poolamets:
Today in the parliament we fight heavily for conservative values. For freedoms, we have a very similar problem as the USA. The globalists have the same agenda everywhere, and we are very worried concerning these developments. We also have problems with immigration. We have problems with the undermining of the family. The LGBT agenda is forcefully put on us. Next month they will try to introduce the hate speech law which means that we will lose freedoms.

The European Green Deal is destroying our economy. We have been in recession for three years already. When we were in government with an all conservative party, we came out from Covid with an 8 percent economic rise. But now there have been three years of economic recession. The European Green Deal is destroying our electricity system. We are going into very dark times, and we are in opposition to these agendas. We must fight during these next three years before our next elections.

What might be interesting for Americans is that we have e-elections, but all parties are completely opposing them. We must somehow tolerate them because they are legal, but we don’t trust them because they’re not accountable. Estonia is a very digital country. We know this is nice, but we don’t accept e-elections because they are unaccountable. Nobody can look into that black box.

America, please avoid this. This is really dangerous. If you remember the problems with your last elections, this is especially dangerous. But I know even Finland never has e-elections. We are Estonian Trumpists, with our local differences. It’s easy to explain to Americans that we are Trumpists. We are conservatives and the values are very similar.

The problems of a big country like the USA and a small country like Estonia with 1.3 million people are different. While we are heavily investing in the army, we are still very small next to the Russian border. We are very thankful for American support. Politicians understand what freedom means, and not many today don’t understand it. We know the difference, having come out from the Soviet Union. I have experienced all of this.

I was a student at that time and I participated in every big activity. I was one of the youngest members of the National Front of Estonia. Estonia brought down the Soviet Union. Everything started here. The Freedom Movement started here. In 1988, Estonia was the first Soviet Republic that declared our laws were higher than Soviet laws. That immediately created total chaos in the Soviet Union, and other republics soon followed.

Our readiness to fight for freedom was also important. We were better informed than other Soviet-occupied areas because we had Finnish TV. We listened to Voice of America. We knew what was going on. In my family, we lived in another information space; Voice of America two times per day, and then Finnish TV. We didn’t want to know anything about the Soviet Union. We were not inside that cultural Marxist space.

I also suggest to U.S. conservatives—completely switch off the cultural Marxism that is coming from every channel. It is possible. We were in a similar terrible situation in Estonia. However, step by step, we are losing some important rights and freedoms. Freedom of speech is going down in the European Union. I mentioned this hate speech law. We have less economic freedom because of the European Green Deal. I would say net zero net is a terrible, terrible Soviet idea. I am worried. I lived in the time of freedom, and I want it back.

Mr. Jekielek:
How did you become a historian?

Mr. Poolamets:
I wanted to know what was happening with Estonians because we had heavy censorship. It was like something out of the novel, 1984. We tried to find old books from private collections talking about the War of Independence in 1918, about suppression, and about occupation. We got this information, but the process was like in Orwell’s book, piece by piece. We found it in these old books.

By the way, the Soviets destroyed millions and millions of Estonian books. They burned them and destroyed them. Millions. We had a huge production of national culture before 1940. These true books of the free world were destroyed. It was a very interesting time of finding out the truth.

I never gave up trying to find out the truth. I also found out that in the West some historical events are not described correctly. The Soviet Union, the Soviet regime, and the Soviet terror are quite far removed from Western people in Europe and the USA. I described the Soviet infiltration into American society. History helps to detect how the Frankfurt School of Philosophy infiltrated your country and started to change your perception of reality.

I suggest the videos of the former KGB agent, Yuri Bezmenov. He defected to the West at the end of the 1970s. He said that it takes two to three generations to alter a country with very dangerous ideas. I feel like that happened in the USA. When I saw this Black Lives Matter protest, it was like a French Revolution everywhere.

They burned cities, and it was terrible. We must look to history to find our way out of this very bad situation. But I also studied law and this is a good mixture. You have to fight for political rights and freedoms, and then you have to know how to fight. This is a very good political weapon.

Mr. Jekielek:
When it comes to Ukraine, a lot of Americans are concerned about priorities. They’re looking at over $100 billion going towards the Ukrainian war effort, a lot less than is going toward our southern border effort. They’re concerned about this. They are also concerned that there were strong overtures for a peace settlement early on, but then that was scuttled. I’d like to hear your thoughts on that.

Finally, as much as there might be sympathy towards the Ukrainian people, it is recognized as an incredibly corrupt place where a lot of people launder money. These are three areas of concern. Obviously, you’re supporting Ukraine.

Mr. Poolamets:
Of course.

Mr. Jekielek:
You’re not supporting Russia, and you’re also not supporting the globalist agenda. Please explain that to us.

Mr. Poolamets:
It is important to support Ukraine in building a nation state, a free and sovereign state. Putin’s idea is to destroy this country and nation. Ukrainians have been a nation for a very long time. This national feeling and pride keeps them fighting despite the corruption, which is a real problem in the country. It shows that they have such strong national feelings, such a strong contempt for occupation, and such a strong desire for independence and freedom. They still sacrifice their lives while not looking at problems in their own state. They have hopes that they can build a better state.

Of course, they have a lot of problems of several types, but I see a very strong national will. Some philosophers are saying, “This is the end of history. There will be no nations anymore.” But Ukraine proves that they are a huge sacrifice in the center of Europe.

Goliath is coming, and David is fighting. Our support really guarantees one important thing, that things do not get even worse by letting Russia win. Then we could say that the international order would be in pieces. The next country that would be worried is Poland. If we don’t help Ukraine now, the problems will rise and rise. That is the big problem. Of course, we all want to stop this war, but Putin has only one goal, taking territory under his terms. Ukrainians can’t accept this, and they fight.

Mr. Jekielek:
In the interview, Putin says he has been ready to negotiate for a long time. He seemed very reasonable on that point.

Mr. Poolamets:
Yes, it looks very legitimate when the President speaks, but I don’t believe a word when a KGB man speaks. When he says something, it may mean something totally different. It was only lies for the American public or something to just demoralize you, speaking about real things like the border crisis. But he doesn’t resolve his own border crisis. They would always like to deepen conflicts and problems. This is really the wrong practice.

I have studied the KGB methods from books and also from real dissidents who experienced them. I have spoken to former KGB agents. We have them in Estonia also. They have published books about their methodology and the way in which this Russian hemisphere works. They speak about the problem of Ukrainian oligarchs, but Russia is full of oligarchs.

They are an utterly corrupt country. But we don’t see a real motivation there to fight. There is a coercion to send Russian soldiers or money to this fight. It’s really that the building sector got activated in Russia because they got money for fallen soldiers. But Ukrainians have a motivation to defend their country.

Mr. Jekielek:
One of the big disasters is this dramatically increased relationship between Russia and the Chinese Communist Party. He talks about how the Chinese have a similar approach. They don’t really want expansion, they just want to be left alone. We know from our own extensive work that this is not the Chinese Communist Party position. Russia, China, and Iran are becoming strong allies.

Mr. Poolamets:
Of course, this war should never happen, but this was created by Putin and we must react. He wanted a very short war and a big victory, but it didn’t happen, so he’s in trouble now. He must justify himself.

But the problem is that European politicians and American politicians have created these demons. They made business with Putin with how much Germany and the European countries paid for gas and oil. Putin collected huge reserves. In 2010, Germany built the world’s best training center, the Mulino Brigade training center where 30,000 Russian soldiers train every year. A NATO ally built up the Russian military might.

This is also about China receiving a huge technology transfer all the time. Only Trump started to say, “Please stop this stealing or technology. Please stop.” By the way, Trump was one of the most serious supporters of Ukraine because Obama only spoke, but Trump was the first to give lethal weapons to Ukraine and these anti-tank rockets.

Mr. Jekielek:
You’re talking about the Javelin rockets ?

Mr. Poolamets:
Anti-tank rockets were highly important. The Javelins were highly important in defending Kiev. Trump was quite a good man in defending Ukraine, and they know it.

But the West must stop the permanent buildup of communist China by this transfer of technology. If I go to a shop, I only see something made in China. Made in China will continue. As an historian, I remember when David Rockefeller gave money to the Soviet Union, a big loan to build the world’s biggest truck factory on the Kama River. This was during the peak time of the Vietnam War.

It was trading with the enemy and very dangerous. They built a huge business center in Moscow during the Vietnam War and said, “Let’s make business.” David Rockefeller and his globalist friends were committing a crime, because American boys were dying in Vietnam.

Then the globalist-minded bankers and business built the biggest truck factory in Russia from ’69 to ’75, and 150,000 trucks came out. Can you imagine where they went? Most of them went to the USSR army. It means that oligarchs like Rockefeller built up the Soviet military might.

I remember what we heard every day. My father started the day with the Voice of America at 6:00 AM, and ended the day at 7:00 PM with the Voice of America. I feel that we were also responsible for what happened in the USA to some extent because my mother and father, grandfather and grandmother, were taxpayers of the Soviet Union. Estonia, as the occupied country, had to pay anyway. Subversive work was done with our money.

This ideological subversion and demoralization found a good ground in the ’60s and ’70s during the Vietnam war, and this is still influencing American society. It is apparent how this cultural Marxism, induced by the Soviet leadership, somehow won in the USA, with all this woke culture and cultural Marxism, these mutinies on the streets, and what we saw with Black Lives Matter. This has been a 40 to 50 year process. A big part of that was Soviet subversive work.

Mr. Jekielek:
Absolutely. Since the fall of the Soviet Union, the Chinese Communist Party has taken on a lot of that subversive work. This is the reason why the U.S. has and continues to have this incredibly positive posture towards the Chinese regime. It was to counter the Soviet Union. That was the theory. That was the idea behind the technology transfer, which continues to this day, and the general vision of engagement as opposed to competition. They don’t view it like the Chinese Communist Party views America, which is as a sworn enemy.

Mr. Poolamets:
They built up their military as a result of this technology transfer throughout the happy ’90s. Even from the ’80s there has been a huge transfer of technology. If we want to stop them, we must do less business with them, especially high-tech business. We cannot send all companies to China where their people earn the money and we have in Europe only an open air museum. It’s not enough.

The Green Deal will make us an open air museum, because all the companies fall down. In Germany and Estonia, the Green Deal is completely destructive, and we will see the results very soon. We can already see it in Germany and in many places.

Mr. Jekielek:
I want to comment on the Ukraine reconstruction. On one hand you talk about the Ukrainian spirit of freedom. We know that a lot of the contracts for Ukraine reconstruction will be going through a giant company called BlackRock. For Ukraine to get the benefits of this massive funding it will be forced to accept a globalist agenda. What can you do if you’re in that position?

Mr. Poolamets:
We really must watch that these companies do not exploit Ukraine. When American taxpayers send money, they send it to the freedom fight, and Americans do it correctly because they send weapons. This is not so apt for corruption. You can’t send these rockets to the nearest market. The EU money may have much more problems because they send money to the government to keep this country going.

There is always a threat that some people make money from the war. It’s a great danger with corrupt people and corrupt companies like Burisma. You remember the story of what happened with Burisma and Biden’s son. But we must protect these nations from falling into this trap that somebody will exploit them after the war. I see that Ukraine is changing very fast. The mentality has completely changed. I have been there three times walking around and talking to common people also, not only ministers. It is amazing what is going on.

Mr. Jekielek:
How has the mentality changed?

Mr. Poolamets:
Unitedness. They were probably split before. There were quarrels between each other and more corruption. But this unitedness and willingness to fight to the end is amazing. It also gives you spirit when you see everybody ready. They tell us, “You are here, but you can die anyday. It’s strange that you came here because a rocket can hit you any day.” When we drink coffee in the cafe the ladies are fatalistically minded and say, “We fight. We don’t fear. We will stay until the end.”

This is amazing. But the Ukrainians must really be aware that not everybody who is coming from the West is a very good friend. Because some are crooks also. They’re in a very difficult situation. They must accept things because it’s a struggle for life. They struggle in Estonia also to some extent because we never know. If Russia is victorious, then all 1.3 million people in the nation must be ready for anything.

Mr. Jekielek:
This is also the Polish position. They want to have an independent Ukraine as a buffer between Poland and Russia. That has a lot of strategic value. Vladimir Putin said in this interview, “The reason for the aggression is that NATO keeps encroaching on us and we won’t tolerate that. This is actually NATO aggression. We’re reacting to that aggression.”

How do you understand that? You’ve already expressed that your view is that Estonia or perhaps Poland might be next if Russia is victorious in Ukraine. But can you qualify that with historical information or even current information?

Mr. Poolamets:
Estonian conservatives have been very worried all the time because we were very pro-army. But liberals for a while thought that the end of history was coming, and they even wanted to abolish the conscript army, and all people fought for this. They wanted visa-free movement to Russia. We said, “Don’t be mad. Russia is dangerous.”

But now even the liberals woke up, and even sleepy Sweden woke up. What was the real consequence of the attack on Ukraine? Sweden has been neutral for 200 years, but they decided very quickly that we must join NATO because they felt afraid. While they’re a rich and strong country, they still felt afraid.

Finland joined NATO, and Russia got a 1000-mile new border with NATO. It was the result of the attack on Ukraine. Finland was a quiet, neutral country. They had no plans to join NATO, but now they are in NATO. They are our neighboring country.

This again shows that Putin made huge miscalculations with this war. He didn’t plan for a long war. It was to be a month or so, and he hoped for a corrupt West. He thought, “I take Kiev, then there will be some sanctions like after 2014 and the Crimean occupation. Then let’s do business as usual with Germany. They bring us money. France and everyone will bring us money for gas and oil.” They made business with Russia. They collected huge amounts of money for Putin, especially German Nord Stream 1, and Nord Stream 2.

By the way, the only western politician who opposed it was Trump. He said that we put sanctions on these companies who build Nord Stream 2, the gas pipeline. Again, he showed backbone. The propaganda wants to show a totally different view, but Trump was a man with backbone and the biggest supporter of Ukraine this time.

I hope he will really end the war soon. Probably if he can do it in the Reagan way that brings down the oil prices, then Russia will really stop the war, because they are in great trouble. But when the Green Deal continues and oil prices are quite high, Russia doesn’t like to stop war.

Mr. Jekielek:
The discourse among conservative circles is that without massive support, Ukraine has no hope. Ukraine actually lost out badly in this whole deal. Of course there has been a lot of death on both sides, but we don’t know how much. The information warfare around this whole conflict is incredible, and it’s very hard to see the real situation. But your point is that if oil prices go down, that could be the end of the war.

Mr. Poolamets:
Yes, Reagan did it once. In Afghanistan, Russia lost more than 12,000 men. Now, they have lost several hundred thousand wounded and dead. But still the oil and gas keeps them going. But when you cut off this lifeline, they will immediately start to crumble down.

The economic pressure has not been so effective because prices are still high, but they spent half of their reserves during two years. This is also the secret behind their economic recovery because he is spending for the military economy, military factories. But this is only a temporary effect when you put huge money into military tank factories.

But concerning Poland, after this interview that Putin gave, Poland must be much more worried. He said Stalin was right in partitioning Poland, and Hitler was right. The Polish people think, “We must prepare because this man is dangerous if he’s justifying Hitler.” Let’s see how it will continue.

Mr. Jekielek:
One of the things that Putin talks about in the interview is that it was a US-backed election in 2014 . It is described as a coup, and the Americans certainly did have significant influence there. We know that. This is hard to contest factually. What is your reaction?

Mr. Poolamets:
The question is that Russia considers itself to be the owner of Ukraine. They decide if and when there is a coup. It’s a typical slaveholder opinion. The Ukrainians know themselves. They have had several elections and every international observer said that these were correct and democratic. In the USA, we saw that you had huge disputes about the correctness of your elections. But Ukraine had correct elections, and we can say that they have had a legitimate government for a long time.

Of course it was a confusing, very dangerous situation when Russia occupied Crimea. They were ready to occupy for a long time. They had long plans. They only tried to find an occasion. What they say or can be interpreted vice versa. When they say “We want peace,” it’s clear that they want war or peace only under their terms.

Mr. Jekielek:
Vladimir Putin has spoken of Russian expansionist ambitions repeatedly in his public speeches. That part isn’t necessarily surprising.

Mr. Poolamets:
Yes, but I feel that it is a falling empire. Do you remember how long it took for Great Britain to disintegrate? It was a long, long time. The first big colony who became independent was the USA. It took a long time until India became free, and until other colonies became free. How long did it take for France to fall? For example, they still had fights in Algeria in the ’60s. Empires fall slowly.

This is a period when Russia is losing their historical zones of influence. Ukrainians who are orthodox Christians with a similar language have kept away from Russia for 100 years. Russia has created hate and division and this is also the way the empire is falling. First, they lost their occupied territories like Estonia and the Caucasian countries. Then they lost satellite states in Europe like Poland, Hungary, and others.

Now, they are losing these spheres of influence because these nations are not believing in them. The only big area under their control is Belarus with 9 million people. But we will see what will happen to them. They may also go away because Belarus elites who are abroad are very pro-freedom and pro-sovereignty. The Belarus language is almost forbidden in Belarus.

This is how Putin builds up his empire. Ukraine has lost only areas under his control and under terror there can be racification. This is a very sad situation. But Ukraine is very strong in their national feelings, even quite apart from speaking Russian. It’s the result of racification.The Irish people lost their language, but they’re Irish, they’re not British. The Ukrainians who were Russian speakers changed to the Ukrainian language because they hate Russia so much now after the invasion. It’s very interesting to see this national awakening in Europe.

Mr. Jekielek:
You’ve been a supporter of what Pilsudsky described as an intermarium, an alliance. You’re a skeptic of the European Union becoming too much like federalism, as the United States has. You want the countries to have more freedom, but at the same time, you support a broad alliance among the European states.

Mr. Poolamets:
Exactly, and the cooperation is different. The Estonia Conservative People’s Party opposes free independent countries together being federalized into the EU. We can’t give away our sovereignty, and the EU is becoming more and more federal. This Green Deal is simply destroying European economies, and this is like the Soviet four-year plan, which was just as stupid as the Soviet economy.

Concerning the intermarium, it was an old idea of Pilsudski, the Polish head of state and great war hero from the first world war and independence war, who wanted a deeper cooperation between countries bordering Russia.

He wanted them to block the spread of Bolshevism. It was a very clever idea. It was very difficult to achieve this because Ukraine was a big territory under Soviet control after the domestic war. Ukrainian’s freedom war didn’t succeed in keeping their independence for a long time.

Pilsudski said, “Let’s build a three seas alliance covering the Baltic Sea, Black Sea, and Adriatic Sea.” Today I am a promoter of this cooperation between the Baltic States, Poland, Romania, Czechia, and Ukraine. They could form a very proper, strong friendship between each other. This is the future of Europe.

We also have a lot of cooperation from the Ukrainian parliament. This is the biggest support group of the cooperation between Baltic Sea countries to Black Sea and to the Adriatic sea. Most of them are former Soviet satellite countries in Europe. They share a common fear of Russian expansionism.

At the same time they share the understanding that the mass immigration into Western Europe is very dangerous. Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania, Ukraine and the Czech Republic have something in common. Their cooperation will be a very strong alternative to the federal EU. While they belong to the EU, there must also be some other ways also to cooperate.

Mr. Jekielek:
In Tucker Carlson’s interview, Putin mentions that ethnic minority nations under Russia are one big happy family.

Mr. Poolamets:
It’s not a happy family because it’s still a prison of nations and Putin is in control of them. Especially during this war, the smaller nations are under very heavy pressure. These are the Bashkirians and the Siberian nations. Also in very bad shape are Finno-Ugric nations, who are all language relatives. Their languages are disappearing because of Putin’s policy. They are not a happy family. They’re disappearing from the surface of earth.

Tens of nations are disappearing because of Russia’s language policy and their cultural genocide. The situation is very bad. I can say the Finno-Ugric nations are in a situation of language extinction. This is in big part from Putin’s politics. He changed the way of teaching the national language so that they would have racification. The huge, huge losses of the war also make them angry.

Bashkiria is now very, very mutiny-minded, and Putin even switched off the internet for a while when there was a big mutiny against the war and against some local leaders. But it was generally against the war because when you protest against the war only, then you are in prison. They protest in different ways.

But the protest toward Russia is growing in occupied Caucasus nations. Russia occupied them a long time ago, and they made a huge ethnic cleansing. For example, some nations were completely annihilated. They fled to Turkey and lived there. With the Circassians, there was a complete ethnic cleansing. There are no Circassians anymore. They were just killed or deported or thrown out.

Former Russian nations in the Soviet Union and even also in Tsarist Russia felt very threatened. Their existence was threatened, especially during Soviet times, with racification and physical extinction.

Mr. Jekielek:
When you say racification, you mean this policy of importing ethnic Russians into regions and then having the language be mandatory and the local language outlawed. Prior to World War, Poland was occupied by Prussia, Germany, and the Austro-Hungarian Empire from the south. The Russian and German policies were of this nature, whereas Polish culture was largely left alone in the South.

Mr. Poolamets:
Yes, exactly. This is the way Russia works. During the tsar’s time, it was to some extent even better because the peasants’ lifestyle didn’t change so much, but in Soviet times they threw people into kolkhozes, collective farms. It was a complete destruction of the lifestyle, also. It has been a very heavy blow.

This is what mass immigration is doing to Western Europe. This Islamic mass immigration is simply destroying Western Europe before our eyes. We have experienced that. This is a massive, overwhelming immigration and there is no way back soon.

Mr. Jekielek:
Let’s talk about these international health regulations and the WHO treaty. Please explain to us how you understand that effort. Who is behind this effort? What is its purpose? What will it accomplish?

Mr. Poolamets:
The new centralization wave of these health regulations and pandemic definitions is completely wrong. After very bad experiences from the Covid time, when we had mandatory closings, mandatory vaccinations, and the limiting of freedoms without reason, the Estonian Conservative People’s Party has built up a great fight against all this, especially mandatory vaccinations.

But now we are fighting against the new amendments to the health regulations, especially concerning shortening the terms. We are very much against the EU negotiating for us. Every member state must negotiate for themselves, and we need more decentralization. I read the proposals for the new health regulations and they are really strange things. They want to give more power for the WHO Secretary General to define pandemics and create an international health emergency situation.

When you give the rights of a dictator to a very small group of people, they can really fake a pandemic by just claiming that there is a pandemic. We have had very real experience with this. In 2009, there was a swine flu panic in Europe, and countries bought a huge amount of vaccines. But the outcome was that there was no pandemic. Even the EU institutions created investigative bodies to investigate the behavior of the WHO in this fake pandemic where they supported big pharma.

Official investigations were made. Huge money was paid to the victims concerning the narcolepsy. Countries spent millions of millions for a fake pandemic. The WHO was a main suspect of creating that. In a sense, they’re like agents of big pharma. This is quite a corrupt system. The UN is quite a corrupt system. The WHO is quite a corrupt system.

A very strange thing also happened in this text. Some countries demanded to take out terms like freedom of person, human rights, and replace it with the word equity. Very strange, isn’t it? The developed countries must give everything away to the third world countries, to these authoritarian regimes who would not like not to spend it on their own people.

You give away everything. There are a lot of articles where it is written, “You shall give away your support. You shall give away your intellectual property for medicine.” It probably will fail because of this.

It looks very much like the third world is demanding a lot of money from the developed world, but the USA and European Union countries already pay so much for these countries. How much more? It’s a very strange and dangerous plan.

Estonia cannot surrender any sovereignty to any international body or the WHO, which is a corrupt organization under Chinese influence. They have created several fake pandemics as a favor to big pharma. I appreciate Trump’s decision to pull out from the WHO. Probably when he wins the election, the WHO plans are completely out.

Mr. Jekielek:
Do you predict that former President Trump will be President again?

Mr. Poolamets:
I don’t know, it will be very difficult for him. This question is simply what his adversaries can do with so many legal cases and they do whatever to stop him. I see that this is very unjust behavior. This is not fair politics to stop legitimate politicians like Trump in this way. This is why we created the Trump support group, and also to avoid this strange anti-Americanism where leftists started to blame America for everything.

The new Left is ready to bring down democracy and freedom of speech, because without freedom of speech, we don’t have democracy. The hate speech is the idea of the American Marxist Herbert Marcuse. He was of course a European emigree. But in 1965 he wrote a famous pamphlet, Repressive Tolerance, and from this time they tried to silence conservatives.

They say that, “Yes, we are tolerant, but everybody else must be silent. Only the Left can speak. We have 10 Left newspapers, but all other newspapers must be closed because we are only tolerant for reds.” It is a very dangerous time indeed.

I see the downfall of democracy in many European countries. My main hope is that eastern European countries will remember how bad it was to lose their freedoms under the Soviet system or communist system.

Mr. Jekielek:
You’ve identified this globalist/Frankfurt school/internationalist agenda that you want the European states to stand against. It seems like Russia is actually trying to stand against that system as well at the moment. How do you react to that?

Mr. Poolamets:
This is a facade. Their real core is imperial might. When they speak, they’re Christians, but it is quite fake Christianity. Why do they sometimes speak about this LGBT question? They really want to use the weak points of their adversaries. They show your weak points, when the West is only doing stupid things and speaking about LGBT, and not preparing for security threats.

Your enemies are laughing about you. Of course, they’re very happy that the West is destroying itself with their own hands. They’re very happy to say, “You are very stupid. We are good Christians, but you are very stupid.”

Mr. Jekielek:
The information warfare here at the current time is massive and coming from every large player. Some American conservatives will be more open-minded to the kind of information warfare that might come from the Russian side, because they know that what’s coming from the globalist side is wrong and has caused incredible damage with the Covid messaging and this Trump-Russia collusion narrative.

We can get trapped in this binary thinking where if I know this is bad, then the alternative being offered to me is good. Things are often more complicated, as we’ve been discussing today. What advice would you offer to American conservatives as they’re trying to understand all this.

Mr. Poolamets:
From my point of view, just remember your own history. You had 13 colonies who were not a nation, but you fought your way out to be one of the best countries in the world. Ukraine has the same destiny. Russia does not consider them to be a nation, but they will fight to the death. They want to be a state and a nation. They must be supported, but in a prudent way, not sending money to the wrong places.

We can help with diplomacy, with international law, and with weapons. Of course, America has been highly important. But after Ukraine wins the war, do not give up to the Left loonies who will want to take rights away very soon and start repressive tolerance and LGBT rights.

American conservatives can give a good example of what freedom really is. First of all, look at the Epoch Times because Estonian conservative look at that. It means that the U.S. still has free speech. Russians don’t have it. Of course, you have problems with free speech, and the U. S. also has certain hate laws. But you have the Epoch Times, the fourth-biggest outlet. You have Fox News, and then you can compare the information, of course.

Mr. Jekielek:
Any final thoughts as we finish up, Anti?

Mr. Poolamets:
American history for the last 50 years will show how your nice society has been infiltrated by communist forces. All this wokeism is very dangerous, and it is bringing down the USA. The freedom of science is threatened in universities. It’s unbelievable. Your great universities, like Harvard and others, are under this threat.

We Estonians from small Estonia can pretend to say something to the American people, because we were part of a repressive Soviet system without freedoms and we were also Soviet taxpayers. All that money was sent to your subversion. I hope we can help by saying. “The USA will flourish again and be great again.

Mr. Jekielek:
Anti Poolamets, such a pleasure to have you on the show.

Mr. Poolamets:
Thank you, Jan.

Mr. Jekielek:
Thank you all for joining Anti Poolamets and me on this episode of American Thought Leaders. I’m your host, Jan Jekielek.

This interview has been edited for clarity and brevity.